Curse

ManMadeGod · Aug 31, 2009, 01:43 PM // 13:43

I think it's hard to find some good Blood Magics builds.
They were only good for spike.
And some best life stealing skills are nerfed.

Oppressive Gaze (used to be the best AoE Blood Spell)
Angrodon's Gazze (used to be the best Life Stealing spell)

And the N/A blood spam style in GvG is not the way we like to see.

If blood magic is designed for damage dealing for necros, we can change some blood spells to hexes so that they cannot stack. Or even damage over time spell (effect cannot stacks).

Something like this:

1.Soul Leech
Elite Hex Spell: For 10 seconds, target foe steal x...y health per second from all nearby allies of that foe. (for pressure and fun)

2.Angorodon's Gaze
Spell. Deal ... damage and for ... seconds, target foe becomes bleeding whenever uses a skill.

3.Blood Renewal
Enchantment: For ... seconds, you gain +3 health regeneration for each bleeding foes in the area. End effect: you gain ... health. (real blood drinker)

4.Oppressive Gaze
Deal 10...50 damage, and if target foe is bleeding, that foe loses x...y health per second for ... seconds. (Damage over time effect cannot stacks)

5.Jaundiced Gaze:
Spell. For 5 seconds, target foe lose x...y health per second.
(Damage over time effect cannot stacks)

6.Lifebane Strike
Hex Spell.or. sececonconds, whenever target foe healed, you gain 20%...150% of the healed health.

7.Mark of Subversion
Hex spell. For 1...4 seconds, the next time target foe uses a skill, that skill fails and takes ... damage. (it's not overpowered if compared to diversion)

The numbers are for references only, energy cost, cast time and recharge need to be tuned also.

These may not be done well enough, but all suggections are welcome.

eyekwah2 · Aug 31, 2009, 03:28 PM // 15:28

I think you're forgetting some things about the necromancer.

A) Necromancer is not a damage dealer. He plays the role of support for the most part.

B) Life stealing has a two-fold advantage. 1) Damage is unblockable, unreduceable, and for all intents and purposes unavoidable. 2) You are healed for the same amount lost by this unconditional damage. There is a good reason why life stealing spells don't do as much as Flare does for instance.

I think it's good that you note that they should be hexes and are therefore unstackable, but remember that different hexes are stackable, meaning that for every skill rebuffed as a hex in order to get them used more often, you're going to see team builds in which each separate player would have one. Even if you have a skill inflicting 15 life steal over the course of 5 seconds, that's ultimately 75 unconditional damage in 5 seconds! All you'd have to do is have 7 out of 8 on your team equip one to kill an opponent in 5 seconds flat with a source of self-heal to boot! (Yes, I do realize that there aren't 7 skills with life steal over time, though that doesn't mean you wouldn't see it abused as much as possible for as many skills as you do modify in this manner.)

I think people focus too much on damage to realize that if your goal is to survive and make your opponent's team fall, then conceptually, self-heal while you're hurt can be just as beneficial as that amount of healing applied as damage to the opposing team. So by that logic, a life steal spell which steals 60 life is as effective as a spell which inflicts 120 unconditional damage (assuming you have 60 life to heal) which for 10 energy is on par with the elementalist as far as effectiveness is concerned.

IronSheik · Aug 31, 2009, 04:47 PM // 16:47

I actually like a few of these skills, granted maybe not the best for blood line, I love soul leech's idea

Borat_Best_Player · Aug 31, 2009, 05:06 PM // 17:06

Imo, make more skills such as blood bond.

Every skill should be someone in this form:

Target foe (Or adjecent...area) take xx negative effect. Party members (or you) gain xx positive effect.

Pretty much like a partygon, only instead of full defensive (such as a partygon), this gives some pressure, and some party support.

Catchphrase · Aug 31, 2009, 06:21 PM // 18:21

Erm no. Lifestealing should never be implemented into part of a hex which triggers unconditionally. If anything, blood magic should be used as a support along the lines of an orders necromancer.

Xsiriss · Aug 31, 2009, 06:30 PM // 18:30

Yeh it does need reworking,and to stop ir from being too OP there could always bee say +x health regen rather than direct life stealing.

MagmaRed · Aug 31, 2009, 08:53 PM // 20:53

I don't see any problems with Blood Magic myself. Sure there are PvP gimmicks based on it, but they aren't hard to beat, and don't always need you to be prepared specifically for it. But the options available to Blood Magic uses is quite nice, for both PvE and PvP.

I often see people looking for Orders, BiP, Wells, enchantment removal, and even when not having a team look for it, the self healing from life stealing skills can make a Monks job easier. In PvE, I always take a Blood Necro hero/hench unless working with a full human team, and then there is usually a BiP Necro on the team. THis allows the casters on the team to keep moving at a fast pace with little need to slow down for energy regen.

Even the monsters in PvE that make use of heavy life stealing aren't hard to handle, and in HM they become even more potent.

If it was a SIGNIFICANT problem in PvP, I can see asking for specific nerfs. But it is more just an annoyance to my knowledge. I won't say it is perfectly balanced, but I don't see it in need of a change until some of the other issues are resolved.

Chocobo1 · Aug 31, 2009, 10:54 PM // 22:54

Blood magic is a huge issue in PvP, which greatly saddens me. By itself, it's terrible but in a team of people its overpowered. Meaning I don't get to play around with it unless I want to play in a gimmick team.

:( sad times.

**Marty Silverblade** · Sep 01, 2009, 07:20 AM // 07:20

Blood just needs a bit of a rework to change it from a straight 'steal x health from foe' to a more buff related line, like orders. I'll be happy when this happens.

Lishy · Sep 01, 2009, 11:22 AM // 11:22

Angrodon's Gaze

I remember...
Ranged touchers :P

Scary · Sep 01, 2009, 11:45 AM // 11:45

Quote:

Originally Posted by eyekwah2

I think you're forgetting some things about the necromancer.

A) Necromancer is not a damage dealer. He plays the role of support for the most part.

I think people focus too much on damage to realize that if your goal is to survive and make your opponent's team fall, then conceptually, self-heal while you're hurt can be just as beneficial as that amount of healing applied as damage to the opposing team. So by that logic, a life steal spell which steals 60 life is as effective as a spell which inflicts 120 unconditional damage (assuming you have 60 life to heal) which for 10 energy is on par with the elementalist as far as effectiveness is concerned.

Glad, that there are more peeps that understand the capabilities of a Supporting Necro.

And due to the support the damage can be overwhelming. Just think in PvE
with a Warior team, and MoP and wells to support.

Shure I can understand that it can be frustrating and passive being a support.
But when you do it right and see how quick the foe's drop..

bound to make you happy

Chocobo1 · Sep 01, 2009, 12:21 PM // 12:21

Quote:

Originally Posted by Scary

Glad, that there are more peeps that understand the capabilities of a Supporting Necro.

And due to the support the damage can be overwhelming. Just think in PvE
with a Warior team, and MoP and wells to support.

Shure I can understand that it can be frustrating and passive being a support.
But when you do it right and see how quick the foe's drop..

bound to make you happy

Being a blood magic support hero is pretty useless later on in the game. You have discord teams, you have SS hexers, you have AP Nukers (for the player) you have minion. Blood magic supporters fit into a very tiny niche of phyiscal heavy teams or bad teams that need BiP to survive.

Well support is pretty damn bad. If your team is huddeled in a well you are going to eat AoE and the + regeneration from WoP or WoB aint going to cover it. Hopefully the corpses are going to be from the monsters, and so you won't really be in range of them unless you are frontlining. The other wells are kinda uselss, save for Well of the Profane. And even then, that isn't even in blood magic.

So overall my point is blood magic always has to occupy a specific niche, and even then it does it pretty poorly. I'd much rather take any other Necro alternative than a Blood Magic necro.

eyekwah2 · Sep 01, 2009, 12:37 PM // 12:37

In PvP, necromancers are used for very specific builds. That doesn't mean we need to buff necromancer skills to cater to it. I understand perfectly the niche of Blood Magic, and it tends to play a very subtle role of pressure and self-preservation in pvp. Though the trend in pvp is rarely to be balanced and so the most popular wiki build is used which just so happens to require Blood Magic to support its elite.

I see only the need to balance such elites, not render the entirety of Blood Magic skills such that you can inflict the equivalent of -15 health degeneration to your foe while giving you 15 health regeneration and all the while inflicting bleeding everytime your foe uses a skill (an additional -3 health degeneration). There's an elite that already does this for a maximum of -8 health degeneration, and I don't think Life Transfer is underpowered. I just think most people don't know how to use the Blood Magic to its maximum effect.

ManMadeGod · Sep 01, 2009, 03:55 PM // 15:55

There are too many life steal, touch and dup'ed skills in blood magic.
It makes you have less choice.

Arghore · Sep 02, 2009, 11:47 AM // 11:47

Thing is, every profession would like a build that works everytime or atleast most of the times and if this were to be the case, then those builds would get nerfed because it would mean they cant be defeated... or if all builds were near OP we be fighting till Kingdom Comes...

What could be a problem with bloodmagic is that it Does Damage and Heals at the same time, which means that in potential one can make an unkillable OP build. Especially with the double skills that were introduced through Factions. All of a sudden there were two of allot of spells... These wont be a big problem in PvE, but in PvP they can make an OP build that just cant be stopped.. meaning soon enough there are just those builds in the Arena and everyone trying something different would fail...

I have tried blood many times in RA, and there were a few builds that worked almost every time, one could indeed be called OP and it involved Life Transfer (hence it got nerfed)... Currently there is the N/A bloodspike build, which altho it looks OP, can be taken care of pretty easy, unlike the R/N toucher build which did not have this weakness

I would not agree with Necro's being for Support, else they would be no fun to play, they can fullfill a support role, but esp. for RA they should be able to do a decent ammount of damage aswell ... necro currently lacks the Wham/Bam Ranged spike build, and perhaps that is a good thing, but people tend to forget that from all the squishish, the Necro is right there at the bottom, allready with one foot in the grave (sure it fits the discription/idea of a necro, but this also means it has to have something that make that other foot count for 2) ..

Appart from removing all the double skills, i think modifying SOME of these bloodmagic to include a requirement for the steal was a realy nice idea of you. Meaning Bleeding req. for the blooddrinker. I thought of another thing that could work aswell, meanly, if the target has Poison/Desease/Weakness when you bite him one of these condition is transferred to you aswell... would make sense to me realy...

One argument i saw about the damage is unblockable, this ofcourse is nonsence, almost all the damage done by Professions is unblockable ... or atleast very hard to deal with, esp. if one is a squishy like a necro..

.. tbh. if you think about it, we suck vs. Physical most of the time, any Element screws us (exept maybe for direct Cold damage), extra weak for Smite, Interupt (ranger or mesmer) screws with any bloodsucking we will need to stay alive, Mesmer's Anticast work as horrid on us as on a Monk, and we dont even get a Hex breaking spell (unless we 2e monk or mesmer) ... all we can try and do is throw stuff back to where it came and Pray to Grenth we even get that chance... and those skills are in the Curses Attribute ??? ...

So the Bloodspike does not need any nerf asfar as im concerned, i would say 'find their weakness' and have a nice day ... i probably wont be running it anyways

( i might tho

and 'leave you for dead' )

MithranArkanere · Sep 03, 2009, 10:38 PM // 22:38

I can maintain over 10 regen n myself and 10 degen on enemies in nearby in PvE with the current Blood Magic.

I see no problems with it.